was after vance made clear that if there was another situation like january sixth wif there w a violent mob attacking the capital demanding the vice president throw out the real votes and instead say, maybe trump won instead let's decide it here. vance said absolutely i would have said let's fight it out. let's have multiple elector sites. i would have done what the mob was trying to get pence to do. i would have done the cue. and then, trump picked him. >> i'm not sure, i think everybody in e,republican politics has tried to down play what january 6th was. i think the country at large knows january 6th is very bad. j.d. vance is a guy that says not only was january 6th not that bad but it should have worked. the mob should have worked. >> and he would have. >> he would have if he was in

the shoes. tim walz and vance are going toe have their debate. we're going to be showing it here toin its entirety live. it could itbe the last debate o any kind before election day on november 5th. if this is the last big event this means this could be the most beeyeballs either campaign gets before a majority of voters cast their ballots. tim walz was a public school teacher and a high school football coach in minnesota before he entered politics and to congress and then into the governship in iminnesota. j.d. vance is a small time venture capitalist who's whole private sector career has been single handedly financially promoted by a tech billionaire. the contrast between these guys could not be greater. of course neither could the stakes. near now the vice presidential debate. >> good evening i'm norah

o'donnell and thank you for joining us. we want to welcome our viewers on cbs, on other networks here in the u.s. and across the world. we have a consequential debate ahead and the issues are those that matter to you the voters. democratic senator tim walz and republican senator j.d. vance, tonight meeting for the first time. >> i'm margaret brennan in order to have ma thoughtful an civil debate these are the rules that both campaigns have agreed to. questions will be aidirected at one candidate who will have two minutes to respond. the other candidate will be allowed two minutes for rebuttal. then each candidate will get another minute to make further points. with an additional 1 minute each n at the discretion of the moderator. the primary role of the moderators is to facilitate the debate between the candidates, enforce the rules and provide the candidates for the opportunity to fact check

claims made by each other. >> cbs news reserves the right to mute the candidates microphones to maintain decor decorum. we have not shared the questions with the participants of the debate. let's get started. the cimiddle east is at the bri of war. americans are suffering from the catastrophic impacts of hurricane helene and now a labor strike nhas 40,000 worke from maine to texas are picketing. let's start with the first question, norah. >> thank you. president biden has deployed more than 40,000 u.s. military personnel and assets to the region over the past year to try to prevent a regional war. iran is weakened. but the u.s. still considers it the largest state sponsor of

terrorism in the world and it has drastically reduced the time it would take to develop a nuclear weapon. it is now down to one or two weeks time. governor walz, if you were the final voice in the situation room, would you support or oppose a preemptive strike by israel on iran. you have two minutes. >> well, thank you. and thank you for those joining us at home tonight. let's keep in mind where this started. october 7, hamas terrorists massacred over 1,400 israelis and took prisoners. iran, israel's ability to be able to defend itself is absolutely fundamental. getting its hostages back, fundamental. and ending the humanitarian crisis in gaza. but, the expansion of israel and its proxies is an absolute fundamental necessity for the united states after steady leadership there. you saw it experienced today where along itwith our israeli

partners and coalition able to stop the incoming attack. but what's fundamental here is, that steady leadership is going to matter. it's clear and the world saw it on that debate stage a few weeks ago. a nearly 80-year-old donald trump talking about crowd sizes is not what we need at this moment. it's not just that. it's those that were closest to donald trump that understand how dangerous he is when the world is this dangerous. his chief of staff john kelly said that he was the most flawed human being he had ever met. and both of his secretaries of defense and his national security advisors said he should be nowhere near the white nehouse. now the person closest to them, to donald trump said he's unfit to the public office. that was senator vance. what we've seen from kamala harris is steady leadership.

understanding that our allies matter. when our allies see donald trump turn toward vladimir putin, turn toward north korea, when we start to see that type of fickleness around holding the coalitions together we will stay committed. and as the vice president said today is we will protect our forces and our allied forces and there will be consequences. >> governor, your time is up. senator vance the same question. would you support or oppose a preemptive strike by israel on iran, you have two minutes. >> so morgan u i want to answer the question first of all thanks governor. thanks to fcbs for hosting the debate and thanks to the american people who are watching this evening and caring enough for this country by paying attention to the vice presidential debate. i want to give an introduction. i was raised in a working class.

my mother required public assistant. i went to college on the gi bill after i enlisted in the marine corp. and served in iraq. i stand here to begin . i want to try to convince you tonight over the next 90 minutes if we get better leadership in the white house. if we get rsdonald trump back i the white house the american dream is going to be attainable once again. to answer this particular question. we have to remember that as much as governor walz called trump of creating chaos. they use it to buy weapons

they're now launching into our allies. donald trump recognized that for people to fear the united states he needed peace to strength. they needed to recognize e that if they got out of line the global leadership would put stability back in the world. you asked about a preemptive strike. it is up to israel to do what they think they need to do. we support our allies when they're fighting the bad guys. i fithink that's the right approach to take with the israel question. >> governor walz, do you care to respond to any of the allegations. well look, donald trump will be in office. we sometimes hear a revision of history. it was donald trump that had boxed iran's nuclear program in. the inability to advance it. donald trump pulled that program and put nothing in its place. so iran is closer to a nuclear

wep than they were before because of trump's fickle leadership. when iran knocked down a missile, donald trump tweeted because that's his response. donald trump wrote it off as headaches. look our allies understand that donald trump is fickle. he dowill go to whoever has the most flattery or where it makes sense to him. steady leadership like you witnessed today, both iranian attacks were repelled and we need the steady leadership that kamala harris is providing. >> senator vance the u.s. did have a diplomatic deal with iran to temporarily pause parts of its nuclear program and president trump did exit that deal. he recently said just five days ago, the u.s. must now make a diplomatic deal with iran

because the consequences are impossible. did he make a mistake? you have one minute. >> well first of all, margaret. diplomacy is not a dirty word but something that governor walz just said. you yourself has said iran is closest to a nuclear weapon. the sequence toof events that l us to right now you can't ignore u october 7th which i appreciate governor walz bringing up. when did iahamas attack israel was during the administration of kamala harris. governor walz can criticize donald trump's tweets but it's how you bring back to a broken world. donald trump has already done it once before. ask yourself ncat home, when wa the last time i'm 40 years old, when was the last time an

american president didn't have major conflict break out. the only answer is during the four years that donald trump was president. >> gentlemen. we s have a lot to get to. norah. >> let's turn now to hurricane helene. the storm can become one of the deadliest on record. more than 160 people are dead and hundreds more are missing. scientists say climate change makes these hurricanes larger. stronger, and more deadly because of the historic rainfall. senator vance, according to cbs news polling, 7 in 10 americans and more than 60% of republicans under the age of 45 favor the u.s. taking steps to try and reduce climate change. senator, what responsibility would the trump administration have to try and reduce the impact of climate change. i'll give you two minutes. >> sure, so first of awful let's start with the hurricane. because t'it's an unbelievable, unspeakable human tragedy. i saw today actually a photograph of two grandparents

on a roof with a 6-year-old child and it was the last photograph ever taken of them because the roof collapsed. i'm hesure governor walz joins in saying our thoughts and prayers go out to them. and we want as robust plan. and after help in the communities. they need their government to do their job and i commit that when donald trump is president again the government will put the citizens of this country first when they suffer from a disaster. and norah you asked about climate change. this is a very important issue. look, a lot of people are justifiably the concerned about this. it's a concern about carbon

emission. this idea that carbon emission causes climate change. if you believe that what iswoul you want to do? you would want to reshore as much american manufacturers as possible and you would want to produce as much energy as possible in the united states of america thbecause we're the cleanest economy in the entire world. what has kamala harris' policies actually led to. more energy production in china, more manufacturing prove seas. more doing business in some cho the dirtiest parts of the entire world and when i say that i mean, the amount of carbon emissions they're doing per unit of economic output. so if we actually care about getting cleaner air and cleaner water, the best thing to do is to double down and invest in american workers, and the american people and unfortunately kamala harris has done exactly the opposite. >> governor walz you have two minutes to respond. >> we got close to an agreement because all of e those things a happening. first of all it is a horrific tragedy with this hurricane. and my heart goes out to the

folks that are down there. in contact with the governors i serve as cochair of the council of governors we work together on these emergency management. governors know no partisan. we work together. those happen on the front end. the federal government comes in makes sure they are there so we recover. we're still many that phase where we need to make sure they are staying there, staying focused. coming back to the climate change issue acthere's no doubt this thing roared on to the scene faster an stronger than anything we've seen. senator vance has said there's a climate problem in the past. donald trump called it a hoax and joked these things would make more beach front property to be able to invest in. what we have seen out of the harris administration now. the biden-harris administration we've seen the investments. we've seen massive investments. the tbiggest in global history that we've seen in the reduction act. 2,000 tin jeffersonville, ohio taking 00the ev technology we

invented and using it here. 200,000 jobs in the country. the largest solar manufacturing plant in america sits in minnesota. but my farmers know climate change is real. they've seen 500 year droughts, 500 year floods back to back. what they're doing is adapting and this has allowed them to tell tme. look i harvest coin, i harvest soybean and i harvest wind. we are producing more clean energy. the solution for us is to continue to move forward. that climate change is real. reducing our impact is absolutely critical. but this is t not a false choic you can do that at the same time you're creating the jobs that we're seeing all across the country. that's exactly what this administration has done. we are seeing us becoming an energy super power for the future ernot just the current. and that's thwhat absolutely makes sense haand then we start thinking about how do we mitigate these disasters. >> senator, i want to agive yo an opportunity to respond there. the governor mentioned that

president trump has called climate change a hoax. do you agree. >> what the president has said the democrat, in particular kamala harris and her leadership if they believe that climate change is serious what they would be doing is more manufacturing and energy production in the united states and that's not what they're doing. clearly kamala harris herself doesn't believe her clown rhetoric on this if she did she would actually agree with donald trump's energy policy. something governor walz said is important to talk upon. when imwe talk about clean energy, that's a slogan that often democrats will speak about here. i'm talking of course about the democratic leadership. if you're spending hundreds of millions or billions of dollars of american taxpayer money on solar panels that are made in china, number one you're going to make the economy dirtier. we should be tomaking more of those solar g panels here in th united states of america. some of them are tim but a lot of them are being made overseas in china. especially the components that go into the

solar panels. if you really want to make the environment cleaner. natural gas, we have to invest more. kamala harris has done the >> senator, your time is up. governor would you like to respond. >> we're producing more naturalu gas, we're producing more oil. like wi said again, these are not liberal folks. these are not folks that are green deal folks these are farmers that have been drought one year, massive flooding the next year. they understand that it makes sense. look our number one export cannot be topsoil from erosion from these massive storms. we saw it in minnesota this summer. thinking about how do we respond to that, we're thinking ahead on this. and what kamala harris has been able to do in minnesota, we're starting to weatherproof some of these things. the infrastructure law that was passed allows us to think about mitigation in the future. how do we make sure we're protecting by burying our power lines. how do we make sure we're

protecting lake fronts and things we're seeing more and more of. to call it a hoax and to take the oil company executives to mar-a-lago and say give me money for my campaign and i can let you do whatever you want. we can be smarter about that. creating those jobs right here. >> governor your time is up. the overwhelming consensus among scientists is the earth's climate is warming at an unprecedented rate. margaret. >> thank you, norah. we're going to edturn now to immigration. the crisis at the u.s.-mexico border consistently ranks as one of the top issues for american voters. senator opvance, your campaign pledging to carry out the largest mass deportation plan in american history. and to use the u.s. military to do so. could you be more specific about exactly how this will work. for example, would you deport parents who have entered the u.s. illegally and separate them from any of their children who were born on u.s. soil? you have two minutes.

>> so first of all margaret before we talk about deportations we have to stop the bleeding. we have a historic immigration crisis because kamala harris started ecand said that she wanted to undo all of donald trump's border policies. 94 executive orders suspending deportations, decriminalizing illegal aliens. massively increasing the asylum flood. a lot of fentanyl is coming into our country. i had a mother who struggled with opioid addiction and has gotten clean. i don't want people who are struggling o with addiction to risk their second chance because kamala harris has allowed millions through the border. build the wall, reimplement deportations and that gets me to your point, margaret. what do t,we actually do? we have 20, 25 illegal aliens in the country. we start with the criminal

migrants. about a million of those people have committed some form of crime in addition to crossing the border illegally. i think you start with deportations on those folks. then i think you make it harder for illegal aliens to under cut the wages of american workers. a lot of people will go home if they can't work for less than minimum wage in our own country. that will be really gegood for our workers who just want to earn a good wage for doing a good day's work. final point, you ask about family separation. right now in this country, margaret. we have 320,000 children that the department of homeland security has effectively lost. some of them have been sex trafficked. some are hopefully in their homes with their parents, some have been used as drug mules. the immigration policy is kamala harris's wide open southern border. when she said she came into office she said she was going to do this.

real leadership would be that she said, i screwed up, we're going to go back to donald trump's policies. >> governor, do you care to respond, including that the vice president is quote letting in fentanyl and letting kids be drug mules. >> the drug mule is not true. but the opioid crisis, the good news is the last 12 months saw the largest decrease in opioid deaths. 23% decrease in ohio. kamala harris is the only person in this race who prosecuted transnational gangs. most of us want to solve this and that's the congress, that's the chamber of commerce, that'sh most americans out here. that's why we had the fairest and the toughest bill on immigration that this nation

has seen. it was crafted by a conservative senator from oklahoma. james langeford i know him he's super conservative but he's a man of principle. wants to get it done. democrats and republicans worked on this piece of legislation. the border patrol said this is what we need in here. these are the experts. they said pass this thing. kamala harris helped get there. 1,500 new border agents. detention for drugs. d.o.j. money to speed up these, the adjudications on this. as soon as i was getting ready to pass donald trump said no. told them to vote against it because it gives him a campaign issue. it gives him, what would donaldm trump talk about if we actually did some of these things and they need to be done by the legislature. you can't just thdo this throug the executive branch. so look, we have the options to do this. donald trump had ofour years. he had four years to do this. and he promised you america how easy it would be. i'll build you a big beautiful wall and mexico will pay for

it. less than o 2% of that wall got built and mexico didn't pay a dime. here we are, 9 years after he came down that escalator dehumanizing people and telling them what he was going to do. as far as the deportation plan. at fone point senator vance sa it was so unworkable it was rk laughable. pass the ibill, he'll sign it. >> hwill you separate parents from their children even if their kids are u.s. citizens. you have one minute. >> my point is we already have massive child separations thanks to kamala harris's open border. i didn't accuse kamala harris of inviting drug mules. i said she enabled drug cartels to work freely. it is a disgrace and it has to stop. i think what tim walz doesn't pass the smell test. we had a record number of

illegal crossings. we have nua record number of fentanyl coming into the country. now now that she's running for president or a few months before she says that somehow she got hereligion and cared a lot onabout a piece of legislation. the only thing that she did when she became the vice president when she became the appointed border czar was to undo 94 donald trump executive actions that opened the border. this problem is leading to massive problems in the united states of america. parents who can't afford health care, schools that are overwhelmed. it's got to stop and it will when donald trump is president. >> governor, what about our cbs news polling which does show that a majority of americans more than 50% support mass deportations? >> look, we fix this issue with a bill that is necessary but the issue on this is, this is what happens when you don't want to solve it. you demonize it. we saw this. and senator vance and it surprises me on this. talking about and saying i will create stories to bring attention to this.

that vilified a large number of people who were here legally in the community of springfield. the republican governor said it's not true. don't do it. there's consequences for this. there's consequences. we could orcome together. senator langeford did it. we could come together and solve this if we didn't let donald trump continue to make it an issue. consequences in springfield were the governor had to send, state law enforcement to escort kindergartners to school. i t believe senator vance wants to solve this but by standing with donald trump and not working together to find a solution, it becomes a talking point. and when it becomes a talking point like this we dehumanize and demonize other human beings. >> governor, your time is up. senator i will give you one minute. but let me just ask you the question first. the governor has u made the poi and i think as a sitting lawmaker you know that congress controls the pursestrings and any funding. so you have said repeatedly

that donald trump would through executive action, solve this. do you disagree that congress controls the pursestrings and would need to support many of the changes that you would actually want to implement. you have one minute. >> first of all the gross majority of what we need to do at the southern border is just empowering the border patrol to do their job. the o border patrol agents just want to be empowered to do their job. of course additional resources would help. most of this is about the vice president and president to empower the border patrol to say, if you want to come from mexico, ntyou have to go throug the proper channels. governor walz brought up springfield, ohio. and is s.worried about what i said. you ahave schools that are overwhelmed, hospitals that are overwhelmed. housing that is totally unaffordable s because we broug

in millions of illegal immigrants to compete with americans for scarce homes. the people i'm worried about are opthe american citizen who have had their lives destroyed by kamala harris' open border. it is a disgrace tim. and i actually think, i agree with you. i think you want to solve this problem but i don't think that kamala harris does. >> senator your time is up. senator, you have one minute to respond. >> it is law enforcement that asked for the bill. they helped craft it. they're the ones that supported it. that's because they know we need to do this. look, this issue of continuing to ibring this up, of not dealing with it. of blaming migrants for everything. on housing, we could talk a little bit about wall street specklators buying up housing. this bill also gives the money necessary to add adjudicate. i agree, it shouldn't take 10 years to get a bill done.

this will take 90 days. i don't take about my faith a lot but matthew25:40 to the most among us you do to me. this bill does it, it's funded. it's supported by the people who do poit and it lets us keep our dignity about how we treat other people. >> thank otyou, governor. and just to clarify for our viewers. springfield, ohio does have a large number of haitian migrants who have legal status. temporary protected status. norah. >> senator. we have so much to get to. >> we're going to turn now to the economy, thank you. the economy. >> since you're fact checking me. i think it's important to say what's actually going on. there's an application called the cvp one app. where you can go as an illegal migrant and apply for asylum or parol and be granted legal status at the wave of a kamala harris open border wand. s that not a person coming in

applying for a green card and waiting for 10 years. that is the connotation. >> thank you for describing the legal process. we have so much to get to senator. >> mthose bills have been in t book since 1990. >> they have not been on the books since 1990. >> gentlemen, the audience can't hear you gbecause your m is cut. we have so much to get to. thank you for explaining the legal process. >> the economy is a top concern for voters. each of your campaigns has released an economic plan. so let's talk about the specifics. governor walz, vice president harris unveiled a plan that includes billions plin tax credits for manufacturing, housing and a renewed child credit. the warton school says you willh reduce the deficit, how would you pay for that without

ballooning the deficit. governor we will give you two minutes. >> you're hearing a lot of stuff back and forth and it's good. it's healthy. that's why this is supposed to happen. you should be listening to how is this going to impact me. there's three million new houses proposed under this plan. with down payment assistance on the front end to get you in a house. a house is much more than just an ucasset to be traded some where. it's foundational to where you are at. and then l making sure the thin you buy every day where they be prescription drugs or other things that there's fairness in that. the $35 insulin is a good thing but it costs $5 to make insulin. they were charging $800 before this bill went into effect. as far as the housing, 12% more housing in minneapolis, prices went down 4%, it's making. and making sure tax cuts go to

the middle class. we have one in minnesota reduces childhood poverty by a third. we save money and do the right things for families. and getting businesses off the ground. the rule is $5,000 for tax credit for small business increasing that to 10,000. donald trump took people to mar- a-lago said you're wealthy, i'm going to give you a tax cut. what happened is the biggest increase of debt ever. everyone agrees including business it would destable it. increase inflation and potentially lead to a recession. this is simple for you. where are we going? kamala harris has said to do e the things we have to do we will just ask the wealthy to pay their fair share. when you do that, the system works best, folks are participating in it. i want to give you a

chance to respond. the warton school is doing a test l on the trump plan and sa it would increase the deficit by 8.5 trillion. how do you pay for all of that without ballooning the deficit. >> you're going to hear a lot from tim walz this evening. a lot of what kamala harris proposes to do, and some of it i'll be honest with you it even sounds pretty good. here's what you won't hear. is that kamala harris has already tdone it because she's been the vice president for 3- 1/2 years. she had the opportunity to enact all of these great policies. and what she's actually done instead is drive the cost of food higher by 25%. drive the cost of housing higher by f about 60%. open the american southern border and make middle class life unaffordable for a large number of americans. if kamala harris has such great plans for how to address middle class problems then she ought to do them now. not when asking for a promotion but in the job the american

people gave her 3-1/2 years ago and the fact that she isn't. tells you a lot about how much you can trust her actual plans. now donald trump's economic plan is nsnot just a plan but it's also a record. a lot of those same economists attack that amsame plan but the have phd but they don't have common sense or wisdom. because donald trump will deliver to the highest take home pay in a generation 1.5 inflation. and peace and security all over the world. so when people say that donald trump's economic plan doesn't make sense. i say look at the record. he delivered raising take home pay for american workers. now tim, admirably admits that they want to undo the trump tax cuts but if you look mat look at what was so different. a lot of those resources went to giving more take home pay to middle class and working class

americans. and we saw a boom like you've never seen. s that a record we're proud to run on and we're going get back to that common sense wisdom so you can afford to live the american dream again. i know a lot of you are struggling. i know a lot of you are worried about paying the bill. it's going to stop when donald trump brings back common sense. >> brwhat has kamala done for t middle class. >> kamala harris' job day one was taking ahold of covid that trump failed on. whether it was the infrastructure act or other removed. i made a note of this. economists can't be trusted. science can't be trusted. national security folks can't be trusted. look if you're going to be president, you don't have all the answers. donald trump believes he does. my protip of the day is this, if you need heart surgery, listen to the people at the

mayo clinic in oprochester minnesota not donald trump. the same thing goes with this. i ask you out there, teachers, nurses, truck drivers whatever, how is it fair that you're paying your taxes every year and donald trump hasn't paid any federal taxes in the last 15 years. in his last year of president. that's what's wrong with the system. there's a way s around it and he's bragged about that. we're just anasking for fairnes in it and that's all you want. >> you have a minute. >> governor you say trust the experts but those same experts for th40 years said if we shift our manufacturing base to china we would get cheaper goods. they lied about that. they said if we ship to mexico and elsewhere it would make the middle class stronger. they were wrong about that. they ldwere wrong about the ide that if we made america less self-reliant. less productive in our own nation that it would somehow make us better and they were wrong about it. for the first time in a generation donald trump had the wisdom and courage to say to that bipartisan consensus we're

not doing it anymore. we're bringing american manufacturing back. we're unleashing american energy. we're going to make more weof o own stuff. this isn't just an economic issue. i have three beautiful kids at home 7, 4, and 2. i love them very much and i hope they're in bed right now. so many of the drugs. the pharmaceuticals that we put in their bodies are manufactured by. we're going to listen to common sense wisdom. >> senator walz can you address that. n voters say they trust donald trump more on the economy, why? >> if you're listening tonight, you want billionaires to get tax cuts. what most concerns me about this is donald trump was the guy who created the largest trade deficit in american

history with china. so the rhetoric is good. many of the things this senator does, i watched it happen too. i watched it to my communities and we mytalked about that. but we had people under cutting the right to collectively bargain. we had right to work states made it much more difficult. we saw people profit. folks that are venture capital putting money into companies that were overseas. we're in agreement we bring those home. the issue is donald trump is talking about it. kamala harris has a record. 250,000 more jobs just out of the ira. >> may i respond to that. >> yes. >> appreciate that. if you notice what governor walz said. donald e trump needs to listen the experts, that's said. the experts didn't do. tim sai think you have a tough job here. because you have to play wack-a-

-mole you have to pretent that donald vetrump didn't deliver lower inflation which of course he did. you simultaneously have to defend kamala harris' atrocious plan. i was raised by a woman who had to go into debt to put food on the table. i know what it's like to not be able to afford the things you cannot afford. we can do so much better to all of you watching. we can get back to an american that is affordable again we just have to get to more. >> i hope we have a conversation on health care then. >> senator, governor, thank you. >> please. >> we have a lot to get to ahead. gentlemen on many topics. i want to talk about personal qualifications. the vice president is often the last voice the president hears before making consequential ea decisions. we want to ask you about your leadership qualities. governor walz, you said you

were in hong kong during the deadly protest in the spring of 1989. but minnesota public radio rian other media outlets are reporting that you actually didn't travel to asian until august of that year. can you explain that discrepancy. >> yeah, well and to the folks out there that didn't get at the top of this. i grew up in small rural nebraska. town of 400. town rthat you road your bike with your buddies until the streets went out. i worked on family farm and then i used a gi bill to become a teacher. my first year out i had an opportunity to travel to china. i came tback home, and then started a program to take young people there. we would take lebasketball team we would take baseball teams. we would take dancers and we would go back and forth to china. the issue for that was to try and learn. look, my community knows who i

am. they saw where i was at. they, look, i will be the first to tell you. i have poured my heart into my community. i've tried to do the best i can. but i'm not been perfect. and i'm a knuckle head at times. but it's always been about that. those same people, elected me to congress. for 12 years. and in congress, i was one of the most bipartisan people. working on things like farm bills. working on veterans bills. then the people of minnesota voted me in twice. my commitment has been there since the beginning. to make sure i am there for the people. i will say more than anything. many times i will talk a lot, i will get caught up in the rhetoric. but being there, the impact it made, the difference it made in my life i learned a lot about china. i hear the critiques of nethis. i would make the case that donald trump should have come on a trip with us. i guarantee you he wouldn't be

praising xi-jin ping about covid. it wasn't about being a good soldier or member of congress. those are the things are the values i think people. >> the question was, can you explain the discrepancy. >> all i said was i got there on that summer and misspoke on this. that's what i've said. so i was in hong kong, in china during the democracy protest went in. from that i learned a lot of what needed to be in governance. >> thank you governor. senator vance in 2016 you called your running mate donald trump unfit for the nation's highest office. and you said he could be america's hitler. i know you said, you've been asked many times and you have

said you regret those comments and then you voted for donald trump no 2020. but the washington post released a message about writing in someone to 2020, quote trump failed to deliver his economic populism. you are now his running mate and you've shifted to align with his. if you become vice president would should americans trust that you will give donald trump the advice he needs to hear. and not just the advice he wants to hear. you have two minutes. >> yofirst of all margaret because i've always been open. sometimes i've disagree with the president but i've also been extremely open e about the fact that i was wrong about donald trump. i was wrong first of wrall because i believe some of the media stories that were fabrications of his record. don donald trump delivered for the people.

an economy that worked for americans. a secure border. a lot of things, that i didn't. i think it's important to actually explain to the american people where o i come down on the issues and what changed. you pointed out to messages in 2020. i was very consistent that i think there could have been a lot of things better if congress was doing its job. i strongly believe and i've been a united states senator that ucongress is not just a high class debating society. it's not just a forum to whine, it's a forum. we could have done so much more if the republican congress and the democrats in congress had been a little bit better about how they govern the country. they were so obsessed with impeaching president trump they could not govern.

i want to talk about this, tim accused this of being a national tax. one of the things donald trump did, the hemost proworker part the biden administration is thet one issue where kamala harris has run away from joe biden's record. if you're trying to employ slave laborers at re$3 a day you're going to under cut the american workers unless our country amstands up for itself and say, you're not accessing our markets unless you're paying middle class americans. >> senator your time is up. norah. >> now to the issue of reproductive rights. governor walz after rowe versus

wade was taken down. you said you believe abortion in the ninth month is absolutely right. yes or no. is that what you support. what the bill says but this issue is what's on everyone's mind. donald trump put this all into motion. he brags about how great it was that he put the judges in and overturned rowe versus wade. 52 years of personal autonomy. then he said we send it to the states. it's a beautiful thing. amanda zowerski would disagree with you. a young bride in texas waiting if awaiting a child. at 18 weeks she had a tear. she needed an abortion. she went home, got sepsis and now she may have difficult.

and a 13-year-old child raped and impregnated by her stepfather. these are horrible things. we make sure women are in control of their health care. for so many of you out there listening me included, infertility treatments is why i have children. the catch out all on this is, the states will decide what's right for texas may not be right for washington. that's not how this works. this is basic human right. we have seen maternal mortality

skyrocket in texas outpacing many other countries in the world. this is about health care. in minnesota we are ranked first in health care for a reason. we trust women, we trust doctors. >> senator, tdo you want to respond to the governor's claims. will you support. >> we certainly won't. i know a lot of americans don't agree with everything that i've ever said on this topic. you know, i grew up in a working class family in a neighborhood where i knew a lot of kyoung women who had unplanned pregnancies and decided to terminate those pregnancies because they feel they didn't have any other options. one of them is actually very dear to me. i know she's watching tonight and i love you. and she told me something a couple of years ago that she felt if she hadn 't had that abortion that it would have destroyed her life because she was in an abusive relationship. as a republican who proudly wants to whprotect innocent lif in this country. who proudly wants to protect the vulnerable is our party we

have to do so much better of a job at earning the american people's trust back on this issue where they frankly just don't trust us. i think that's one of the things that donald trump and i are endeavoring to do. i want us as a republican party to be profamily in the fullest sense of the word. i want us to support fertility treatments. i want to make it easier for moms to have babies. i want to make it for young families to afford a home so they can afford a place to raise that family. i think there's so much we can do on the public policy front just to give women more options. now, of course, donald trump has been very clear on the abortion policy specifically, that we have a big country and it's diverse and california has a different viewpoint on this than georgia. georgia has ewa different viewpoint from arizona. and ffthe proper way to handle this as messy as democracy sometimes is, is to let voters make these decisions. let the individual states make their abortion policy i think that's what makes the most

since in a mavery big, a very diverse and sometimes a very, very messy and divided country. >> governor would you like to respond and also answer the questions about restrictions. >> yeah, well the question got asked and donald trump made the accusation that it wasn't true about minnesota. let me tell you about this idea that there's diverse states. there's a young woman named amber thurman she happened to be in georgia a restrictive state. because of that she had to travel a long distance to north carolina to try to get her care. amber thurmon died in that journey back and forth. the fact of the matter is, how can we add a nation, say that your life and your rights as basic as the right to control your own body, is determined on gee geography. there's a real good chance has amber thurmon lived in minnesota she would be alive

today. you hear e us talking exactly t same. donald trump is trying to figure out ldhow to get the political right of this. i agree with a lot of what senator vance said. his running mate does not. that's the problem. my question is, why have you changed your position? >> norah, i never supported a national ban i did talk about setting a national standard. for instance, we have a partial abortion ban at the federal level. birth abortion ban in place at the federal level and i hope no one is trying to get rid of that, though democrats have

taken a radical stance. one of the things that changed was in the state of ohio we had a referendum in 2023 and the people of ohio voted overwhelmingly, by the way, against my position. i think what i learned from that is we have to do a better job at winning back people's trust. so many young women would love to have families. so many young women see an unplanned pregnancy is something that will destroy their livelihood, destroy their education,st destroy their relationships and we have got on to learn people's trust back. that is why donald trump and i are committed to pursuing policies making childcare more accessible, making fertility treatments more accessible. we have to do a better job at that and that is what real leadership is. >> i'm going to respond on the pro-abortion part of that. no we're not. we are pro-women. we are pro-freedom to make your own choice. we know what the implications are to not be that. women having miscarriages. women not getting the care. physicians feeling like they may be prosecuted for providing

that care and as far as making sure we are educating children w and giving them options, minnesota is one of the states with the lowest teen pregnancy rates. we know that the options need to be available. we also make it, we are a top three state for the best place to raise children, but these things to try to say that we are pro-children but we don't like this or you guys are pro- abortion, that is not the case at all. we are pro-freedom for women to make choices and we are going and kamala harris is making the case to make options for o children more affordable. a $6000 child tax credit, but we are not going to base that on the backs of making someone like amber thurman drive 600 miles to try to get healthcare. >> senator. >> and i respond to that? first of all i agree with you that amber thurman should still be alive and i certainly wish that she was. you are free to disagree with me on this and explain this to me, but as i read the minnesota law that you signed into law, the statute that you signed into law, it says that a doctor

who presides over and abortion where the baby survives, the doctor is under no obligation to provide life-saving care to a baby that survives a botched late-term abortion. >> that is not true. >> that is fundamentally barbaric and that is why i use that word, norah. some of what we have seen, do you want to form catholic hospitals to perform abortions against their will because kamala harris has supported suing catholic nuns to violate their freedom of conscience. we can be a big and diverse country where we can expect people's freedom of conscience and make the country more pro- baby, but please. >> governor, please respond. sp >> look, this is a very simple proposition. these are women's decisions to h make about their health care decisions and the physicians who know best. tryingow to distort the way law is written to make a point, that's not it at all. >> what was i wrong about, governor? please tell me. >> that is not the way the law was written.

>> but how? >> that has been misread and it was fact checked at the last debate, but the point is there is a continuation of these guys to try to tell women or to get involved. i use this line, just mind your own business. things worked best when roe versus wade was in place. when we do a restoration of roe, that does not preclude us from increasing funding for children. for making sure that once the child is born, like in minnesota, they get meals. they get early childhood education. they get healthcare. so hiding behind we are going to do all these other things while not proposing them in your budget. kamala harris is proposing all h those things to make life easier for families. >> i ask a specific question, es governor and you give a slogan as a response. >> it is not true. i that's not what it says. they fact checked it with president trump. >> there is a lot to discuss and we have to move on. we will be right back with more of the cbs news vice presidential debate in just a moment.

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welcome back to the cbs news vice presidential debate. we want to do now to america's gun violence epidemic. the leading cause of death for children and teens in america is by firearms. senator vance, you oppose gun legislation that democrats claim would curb gun violence. you oppose red flag on laws and legislation to ban rifles including ar-15. earlier this year for the first time the parents of a school shooter were convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to 10 years in prison.

do you think holding parents responsible could curb mass shootings? i will give you two minutes. >> i don't know the details but i trust law enforcement or local authorities to make the decisions and in some cases the answers will be yes and in some cases the answers will be no and the details matter. wicked stills again that will be different than if a parent hands over again knowing their kid could be potentially dangerous. i want to speak as a father of three little kids, the oldest and second grade. like a lot of parents we send our kids to school with such hope and joy and pride on their faces for the first day of school and we know unfortunately the kids will experience this epidemic of gun violence and our hearts go out to families affected by this stuff and we do have to do better. i think the governor and i agree that we have to do better. the question is how do we actually do it? here is something that bothers me and worries me about this epidemic of violence.

close to 90% of the gun violence in this country is committed with illegally obtained firearms and while we're on that topic we know that thanks to kamala harris's open border we have seen a massive influx in the number of illegal guns run by the mexican drug cartels. the amount of illegal guns in our country is higher today than it was 3 1/2 years ago, but what do we do about the schools and what do we do to protect our kids? i say this not loving the answer, because i don't want my kids to go to school in a school that feels unsafe or where there are physical signs of security, but i think we have to increase security in our schools. we have to make the doors stronger, make the window stronger and of course we have to increase school resource officers. the idea that we can magically waive a wand and take the guns at of hands of bad guys, it does not fit with experience.

we have to have bipartisan experience for how to do that. >> governor, you have two minutes. >> for all the parents watching, this is their biggest nightmare. i have a 17-year-old and he witnessed a shooting at a community center, playing volleyball. those things don't leave you. as a member of congress i sat in my office surrounded by dozens of parents and they were looking at the picture on the wall and asking us to do something. look, i am a hunter. i own firearms. the vice president is. we understand that the vice president is there, but we have to figure this out. in minnesota we enacted enhanced red flag laws, enhanced background checks and we can start to get data. here's the problem. if we really want to solve this we have folks who won't allow research to be done on gun violence and this idea that we should just live with it. here is what i think.

this is a good start to the conversation. i 100% believe that senator vance hates it. it breaks your heart. i agree with that, but that is not far enough. we know that there are things that work. i have spent time in finland. they don't have this happen, even though they have a high gun ownership rate in the country. there are reasonable things we can do to make a difference. it is not infringing on your second amendment and the idea to have some of these weapons out there, it just does not make any sense. kamala harris as attorney general worked on this issue. she knows it is there. no one is trying to scaremonger and say we are taking your guns, but i asked do you want your schools hardened to look like a fourth? is that where we have to go when we know there are countries around the world, that their children are not practicing these types of drills. they are being kids. we owe it to them to get a fix.

these are things that should not be that difficult. you can keep your firearms and we can make a difference. we have two. if you are listening tonight this breaks your heart. >> tim, first of all i did not know that your 17-year-old witnessed a shooting and i am sorry about that. it is awful. i appreciate what tim said about finland because i think it illustrates some of the frankly weird differences between our own countries gun violence problem in finland. okay, first of all, we have way higher rates of mental health abuse, or mental health, substance abuse. we have way higher rates of depression, way higher rates of anxiety. we unfortunately have a mental health crisis in this country that i really do think we need to get to the root causes of. i don't think it is the whole reason we have such a bad gun violence problem, but i do think it is a big piece of it. another driver of the epidemic affecting our kids, it does not earn his many headlines, but the terrible gun violence problem in a lot of our big cities. this is why we have to empower

law enforcement to arrest the bad guys, put them away and take on offenders off the streets. i think there is a host of things we can do, but i do think in our schools we have to talk about more security. >> governor you previously opposed an assault weapons ban and only later in your career did you change your position. why? >> i sat in that office with the sandy hook parents. i was an nra guy for a long time. they used to teach gun safety. i am of an age where my shotgun was in my car so i could pheasant hunt after football practice. that is not where we are today. several things i want to mention on this. talking about cities and where it is at, where than -- where the most firearms deaths happen in minnesota is rural suicides and we have an epidemic of children getting guns and shooting themselves. we have and we should look at all the issues. making sure folks have healthcare, but i want to be careful. this idea of stigmatizing

mental health, just because you have a mental health issue does not mean you are violent and i think we start looking for a scapegoat. sometimes it just is the guns. there are things you can do about it, but i think this is a healthy conversation. i think there is a capacity to find solutions on this that work, protect the second amendment and protect their children. that is the priority. >> governor, thank you. margaret. >> thank you, norah. there is a shortage of 4 million homes in the united states and that contributes to high housing prices. governor walz, the harris campaign promises a $25,000 down payment assistance for first-time homebuyers and a $10,000 tax credit. they also promised to build 3 million new homes. where are you building these homes and won't handing out that money drive up prices

higher? >> no, it is not handing out. first, let me say this. this issue of housing, the problem we have is we have a lot of folks who see housing as another commodity. it can be bought up, it can be shifted, it can be moved around. those are not folks living in those houses. those of you listening tonight, and houses a big deal. i've bought and owned one house in my life. my mom still lives in the house where i was. when i think of the house i think of christmas services are you go with your family. we need to make it more affordable and one of the things that i said, this program that the vice president is pushing forward is something we are doing in minnesota. we, in the state, invested in making sure our housing was the biggest investment we ever made in housing. it starts to make it easier. we cut the red tape. we can't do it at the federal level, but local folks make it easier to build those homes. i can tell all of you out there, certainly for me, using the g.i. bill was one thing, but a

veterans home loan, the big thing is that you don't have to pay the down payment. look, you will pay it back into a peer mortgage. those are things that we know in the long run, the generational wealth created from it and i will give minneapolis an example. minneapolis is one city where we have seen the lowest inflation. we've seen a 12% increase in stock because we put some of these things and and we are implementing a state program to make sure we get that assistance. we get back from people because here is what we know. people with stable housing and up with stable jobs. people with stable housing have kids able to get to school. all of those things in the long run and up saving money and that is the thing where i think we should be able to find common ground, but we can't blame immigrants for the only reason. that is not what is happening. the fact of the matter is that we don't have enough affordable housing, but we can make sure that the government is there to kickstart it.

create that base. >> governor, your time is up. senator vance, as far as your campaign position, the promise is to remove regulation, provide tax breaks and cut back on immigration what you say pushes up prices. where are you going to build all of the new homes you are promising and what part of any of this plan will provide immediate relief? you have two minutes. >> first of all, tim said something i agree with. we don't want to blame immigrants for housing prices, but we do want to blame kamala harris for bringing in millions of immigrants in this country which does drive up costs, tim. 25 million illegal air immigrants competing for homes is one of the most significant drivers of home prices in the country. it is why we have massive increases in home prices that have happened alongside massive increases in illegal alien populations under kamala

harris's leadership. now tim mentioned a bunch of ideas. some of those ideas i think are halfway decent and some i disagree with, but the most important thing here is that kamala harris is not running as a newcomer to politics. she is the sitting vice president. if she wants to enact these policies to make housing more affordable, i invite her to use the office that the american people already gave her. not sit around and campaign a do nothing while americans find the american dream of homeownership completely unaffordable. you asked what would immediately change the equation for american citizens? if you lower energy prices. as donald trump says, drill, baby, drill. one of the biggest drivers of housing costs, think about it. if a truck driver is paying 40% more for diesel than the lumber that he is delivering to the job site to build the house is also going to become more expensive. if you open up american energy you will get immediate relief for american citizens. not, by the way, just in

housing, but a whole host of economic goods, too. >> senator vance, you still have 23 seconds there. >> and i have it? >> governor, we will get you in a second, but senator, where will you seize the federal lands, can you clarify? >> we have a lot of federal land not being used for anything and they could be places where we build a lot of housing and i think we should be opening up building in this country. we have a lot of land that could be used. we have a lot of americans that need homes. we should be kicking out illegal immigrants that are competing for those homes and we should be building more homes for the american citizens that deserve to be here. >> senator, your time is up. governor, i want to let you respond to the allegation that the vice president is letting in migrants. >> it is not true. you have the facts and i guess we agreed not to fact check. i will check it. crossings are down since donald trump left office, but it is again laming and not trying to

find a solution. i was going to ask are we going to drill and build houses on the same federal land? when people hear federal land, these are important pieces of land. minnesota doesn't have a lot of federal land. in the western parts of the country we do. there is not a lot of federal land in and around minneapolis, for example. i don't understand the federal land issue. i worry about this as someone who cares about national parks. minnesota, we protect these things. we have about 20% of the world's freshwater. they are there for a reason. they belong to all of us. this is when you view housing and these things as a commodity, like there is a chance to make money here. let's take this federal land and sell it to people for that. there are better ways to do this. in minnesota we are able to make investments. that gets people in. the fact on this, economists. senator vance, you said you don't like the economists. which economists is that that are saying it is immigrants

adding to the costs? >> governor, your time is up, but senator on that point i would like you to clarify. there are many contributing factors to high housing costs. what evidence do you have that migrants are part of this problem? >> well, there is a federal reserve study we are happy to share after the debate. we will put it up on social media actually that really drills down on the connection between increased migration and higher housing prices. of course that is not the entire driver of higher housing prices. it is also the regulatory regime of kamala harris. look, we are a country of builders, a country of doers, a country of explores and we increasingly have a federal administration that makes it harder to develop our resources, et cetera harder to build things and wants to throw people in jail for not doing everything exactly as kamala harris says they have to do and what that means is you have a lot of people who would love to build homes who are not able to build homes. i actually agree with tim walz. we should get out of this idea of housing as a commodity, but

the thing that has most turned housing into a commodity is giving it away to millions upon millions of people who have no legal right to be here. >> what are the federal regulations? i deal with this as a governor. >> you can quickly reply. >> i don't necessarily disagree with that. many are local, many of them are state. i don't know which ones are federal, but when people talk regulations, people think you can get rid of them. i think you want to be able to get out of your house in a fire. i think you want to make sure it is fireproof and those sorts of things, so which are the legislations? the vice president is not responsible for those. congress writes those. >> gentlemen, we have a lot to get to. you are passionate about the housing crisis, i can tell. norah. >> thank you. one of the problems facing americans is the high cost of healthcare. senator vance, former president trump was asked about replacing the affordable care act. in response he said i have

concepts of a plan. since then, senator, you have talked about changing how chronically ill americans get health insurance. can you explain how that would work and would you guarantee that americans with pre- existing conditions won't pay more? i will give you two minutes. >> of course we will cover americans with pre-existing conditions. in fact a lot of my family members have gotten healthcare. members of my family actually got private health insurance for the first time, switched from medicaid onto private insurance for the first time under donald trump's leadership. i think a lot of people have criticized this concepts of a planning mark. i think it is simple common sense. as tim walz knows from 12 years in congress, you are not going to propose a 900 page bill standing on a debate stage. it would bore everybody to tears and it would not mean anything because part of this is the give-and-take of bipartisan negotiation. when donald trump was actually president and again he has a plan to be proud of.

prescription drugs fell for the first time in a long time. under kamala harris's leadership, prescription drugs are up about 7%. under donald trump's for years they were up 1.5%. he introduced pricing transparency. think about healthcare. you go into a hospital and try to buy something and no one knows what it costs. that price transparency will give american consumers more choice and will also drive down costs. we talked about the reinsurance regulations, is what i was talking about. donald trump said if we allow states to experiment a little bit on how to cover both the chronically ill and the non- chronically ill. it's not just a plan. he actually implemented some of these regulations when he was president of the united states and i think you can make a good argument that it salvaged obamacare which was doing disastrously until donald trump came along. this is an important point about president trump. you don't have to agree with everything president trump has said or done, but when obamacare was crushing under the weight of its regulatory

burden and healthcare costs, donald trump could have destroyed the program. instead he worked to ensure that americans have access to affordable care. it is not perfect of course and there is so much more we can do, but i think donald trump has earned the right to put in place some better healthcare policies. he has earned it because he did it successfully the first time. >> governor. >> all right, here is where being an old guy gives you some history. i was there at the creation of the aca and the reason it was so important as i come from a major healthcare state. home of the mayo clinic, home of medical alley. 3m, medtronic, all of those. we understand healthcare. it is why we are ranked first on affordability of quality healthcare. what i know is under kamala harris more people are covered than before. those of you listening, this is critical for you. donald trump all of a sudden wants to, go back and remember this.

he ran on the first thing he was going to do on day one was repeal obamacare. on day one he tried to sign an executive order to repeal the aca. he signed onto a lawsuit to repeal the aca, but lost at the supreme court and he would have repealed the aca had it not been for the courage of john mccain to save that bill. now fast forward. what that means to you is you lose your pre-existing conditions. if you're sitting at home and have asthma, too bad. if you are a woman, probably not. broke your foot during football, might kick you out. your kids get kicked out when they are 26. kamala harris negotiated drug prices for the first time with medicare. we have 10 drugs that will come online. the most common ones will be there. this issue, when donald trump said we have a concept of a plan, it cracked me up as a fourth-grade teacher because my kids would have never given me that. what senator vance explained might be worse than a concept, because what he explained his

pre-obamacare. i will make this simple as possible because i've done this for a long time. what they are saying is, if you are healthy, why should you be paying more? what they will do is let insurance companies pick who they insure. you pay your premium, it is not much. they figure they want have to pay out to you. but those of you a little older, gray, got cancer, you will get kicked out of it. that is why the system didn't work. kamala harris will protect the aca. >> senator you have not explained how you will protect people with pre-existing conditions or layout that plan. >> we currently have laws and regulations in place right now that protect people with pre- existing conditions. we want to keep those regulations in place, but we also want to help make the marketplace function better. what governor walz just said is actually not true. a lot of what happened and the reason obamacare was crushed under its own weight is that a lot of young and healthy people were leaving the exchanges. donald trump helped address

that problem and did so in a way that preserved people's access to coverage who had pre- existing conditions. again, something these guys do is they make a lot of claims about if donald trump becomes president a lot of these terrible consequences will ensue. in reality donald trump was president. inflation was low, take-home pay was higher and he saved the very program from a democratic institution that was collapsing and would have collapsed absent his leadership. he did his job, which was govern in a bipartisan way and results. not just complain about problems, but solve them. >> governor, did enrollment in the affordable care act go up under the trump administration? >> it is higher now. people are using it. the system works. the question of young people, that is the individual mandate and republicans fought tooth and nail -- >> so you think the individual mandate is a good idea? >> i think the idea of making

sure the risk pool is broad enough to cover everyone, that is the only way insurance works. when it doesn't, it collapses. you are asking where we get people out. look, people know they need to be on healthcare. people expect it to be there and when we are able to make it and we are making it this way. when we incentivize people to be in the market, when we help people who might not be able to afford it get there and we make sure that when you get sick and old, it is there for you. i heard people say i don't want to buy into medicare or whatever. good luck buying healthcare once you get past 70. the aca works. we can continue to do better. kamala harris did that. the way she made everything better was negotiating those 10 drugs on medicare for the first time in american history. >> i apologize, we're out of time and have a number of subjects to discuss. margaret. >> let's talk about families in america. there is a childcare crisis in this country and the united states is one of the very few developed countries in the world

without a national paid leave program for new parents. governor walz, you have said that if democrats win the white house and congress, this is a day one priority for you. how long should employers be required to pay workers while they are home taking care of your newborns? you have two minutes. >> well, that is negotiable and that is what congress works, but here is what the deal is. americans sitting out there right now, you may work for a big company. we are home in minnesota to some of the largest fortune 500 companies. kamala harris knows that in california. those companies provide paid family medical leave. one, it is moral and a good thing, but it also keeps employees healthy. in minnesota we passed paid family and medical leave. you had a child. i had to go back to work five days after my kids were born. this allows you to stay home a certain amount of time. we know that gets the child off to a better start, the family works better and people stay with their employers. we get more consistency. we implemented it in minnesota

and we see growth. that is how you become a pro- business state, but here is the issue. those big companies are able to offer it. those of you out there who don't have it, just imagine what happens if you get cancer or your child gets sick? we know what happens. you end up staying home. in some cases that means no paycheck because you have no protection on that. this is the case of an economy that donald trump has set for the wealthiest among us. he is willing to give those tax breaks to the wealthiest. he is willing to say, bust up those unions, do whatever. we are saying that the economy works best when it works for all of us, so a paid family medical leave program, i will tell you. go to the families or the businesses and ask them. as far as childcare on this you have to take it on the supply and demand side. you can't expect the most important people in our lives who take care of our children

to get paid the least amount of money and we have to make it easier for folks to get into that business and make sure folks are able to pay for that. we were able to do it in minnesota and we were listed as the best date. we are still in crisis on this. a program of paid family medical leave and help with this will enhance the workforce, enhance our families and make it easier to have the children you want. >> governor, your time is up. senator, do you support a national paid leave program and if so for how long should employers be mandated to pay their employees while they are taking care of their newborn? you have two minutes. >> first of all he number of my republican colleagues and some democrats worked on this and i think there is a bipartisan solution, because a number of us care on this issue. i speak to this personally because i am married to an incredible woman who is an incredible mother to our kids but is also a brilliant corporate litigator. i am so proud of her, but being a working mom even with someone

with all of the advantages of my wife is difficult. not just from a policy perspective. she had access to paid family leave because she worked for a bigger company, but the cultural pressure on young families and especially young women, i think makes it really hard for people to choose the family model they would want. a lot of women would like to go back to work immediately. some would like to spend longer at home with the kids. we should have a family care model that makes choice possible. i think this is an important and substantive difference between donald trump and kamala harris's approach. if you look at the programs we have that support paid family leave right now. the community development block grant. another block grant program that spends a lot of money from the federal government. these programs only go to one childcare model. let's say you would like your church to help out with childcare. maybe you live in a rural area or urban area and would like to get together with families in your neighborhood to provide childcare in the way that makes the most sense. you don't get access to any of

these federal monies. we want to promote choice in how we deliver family care and childcare because, look, it is unacceptable. we have been on the campaign trail a lot the last seven or eight weeks and one of the biggest complaints i hear from young families is people who feel like they don't have options. like they are choosing between going to work or taking care of their kids. that is an incredible burden to put on american families. we are the only country that does it. i think we can do a heck of a lot better. >> senator, thank you. you have also said, senator vance, many things about the american family. the federal reserve says parents will spend nearly as much on childcare as they do on housing each month, so i want to get your thoughts on this. president trump recently said as much as childcare is talked about as being expensive, it is relatively speaking not very expensive compared to the kinds of numbers we will be taking in. as president trump committed to

the $5000 per child tax credit that you have described? you have one minute. >> what president trump said, i just want to defend my running mate a little bit. we will be taking and money by penalizing companies for shipping jobs overseas and penalizing countries who employ slave laborers and ship products back to our country and undercut wages. it is the heart of the donald trump economic plan. cut taxes for american workers and american families. cut taxes for businesses hiring and building in the united states of america, but penalize companies shipping jobs overseas. that is the heart of the economic proposal and i think what president trump is saying is when we bring in this additional revenue with higher economic growth we will be able to provide paid family leave, childcare options that are viable and workable for a lot of american families. >> can you clarify how that will solve the childcare shortage? >> well, because as tim said, a

lot of the childcare shortage is that we don't have enough resources going into the multiple people who could be providing family care options and we are going, look, we have to spend more money. we have to induce more people to want to provide childcare options for american families, because the reason it is so expensive right now is because you have way too few people providing this essential service. >> thank you, senator. governor walz also has some childcare tax credit proposals. you think congress will agree to the $6000 credit for newborns and $3000 credit for children over the age of six as your campaign has promised? is that realistic? >> of these members of congress are listening, i can tell you. this is the biggest issue. everyone listening to my nose. i am sure they were shocked to hear it is not that expensive. let's be clear, whether it is $5000 or $6000, that buys you for five months. it's because we got out of an

imbalance on this. i don't think we are that far apart. i'm not opposed to what he's talking about on options. i think we need to be open to making the case, but the issue is, the question you asked is you are not going to pay for it with these tariffs. that is adding more on the family and taking less. not only do they not get the money to pay for that, they are $4000 in the hole. that is his alma mater. the issue is those members of congress, when i go to businesses, sure they will talk about taxes sometimes, but they will lead with childcare and they will lead with housing. we know the problems especially in a state like minnesota. we need more workers because our economy is growing, but we need the workforce. >> governor, thank you. norah. >> let's talk about the state of democracy. after the 2020 election, president trump's campaign and others filed 62 lawsuits contesting the results.

judges, including those appointed by president trump and other republican presidents looked at the evidence and said there was no widespread fraud. the governors of every state in the nation, republicans and democrats, certified the 2020 election results and sent a legal slate of electors to congress for january 6. senator vance, you have said you would not have certified the last presidential election and would've asked to the states to submit alternative electors. that has been called unconstitutional and illegal. would you again seek to challenge this year's election results, even if every governor certifies the results? i will give you two minutes. >> well, norah, first of all i think we are focused on the future. we need to figure out how to solve the inflation crisis, make groceries affordable and that is what i'm focused on, but i want to answer your question because you did ask it. what president trump has said

was there were problems in 2020 and my belief is that we should fight about those issues, debate those issues peacefully in the public square and that is all i've said and all the donald trump said. remember that he said on january 6 the protesters ought to protest peacefully and on january 20, what happened? joe biden became president, donald trump left the white house and now of course unfortunately we have all of the negative policies that have come from the harris biden administration. i believe we do have a threat to democracy in this country, but unfortunately it is not the threat that kamala harris and tim walz want to talk about. it is the threat of censorship. americans casting aside lifelong friendships because of disagreements over politics. it is big technology companies silencing their fellow citizens and it is kamala harris saying that rather than debate and persuade her fellow americans she would like to censor people. i think that is a much bigger threat to democracy than anything we have seen in this

country in the last four years. in the last 40 years. i'm really proud given that i was raised by two lifelong democrats to have the endorsement of bobby kennedy junior and tulsi gabbard, lifelong leaders in the democratic coalition. of course they don't agree with me and donald trump on every issue. we don't have to agree on every issue, but we are united by the principle that we ought to debate our differences. we ought to argue about them. we ought to persuade our fellow americans. kamala harris is engaged in censorship at an industrial scale. she has done it over a number of issues and that to me is a much bigger threat to democracy than what donald trump said when he said protesters should peacefully protest on january 6. >> governor. >> well, i enjoyed tonight's debate and i think there was a lot of commonality here and i am sympathetic on misspeaking on things. >> me, too, man. >> there is one, though, and this one is troubling to me.

i think we need to tell the story. the fact is that i don't think we can be the frog in the pot and let the boiling water go out. he was very clear. he lost the election and said he didn't. 140 police officers were beaten at the capital that day, some of the american flag. some later died and it was not just there. in minnesota a group gathered at the state capitol grounds in st. paul and said we are marching to the governor's residence and there may be casualties. the only person there was my son and his dog, who was rushed out crying by state police. that issue and mike pence standing there as they were chanting, hang mike pence. mike pence made the right decision. so, senator, it was adjudicated over and over and over. i work with kids long enough to know and i said as a football coach, sometimes you really want to win, but democracy is bigger than winning an election. you shake hands and try to do everything you can to help the other side win. that is what was at stake here. the thing i am most concerned about is the idea that

imprisoning your political opponents. already laying the groundwork for people not accepting this and a presidents words matter. a presidents words matter. people hear that. so i think this issue of settling our differences at the ballot box, shaking hands when we lose, being honest about it. but to deny what happened on january 6, the first time in american history that a president or anyone tried to overturn a fair election and the peaceful transfer of power and here we are, four years later, in the same boat. i will tell you this. that when this is over, we need to shake hands, this election, and the winner needs to be the winner. this has got to stop. it is tearing our country apart. >> margaret. >> senator vance, did you want to respond to that? >> look, tim. first of all it is really rich for democratic leaders to say that donald trump is a unique

threat to democracy when he peacefully gave overpower on january 20, as we have done for 250 years in this country. we are going to shake hands after this debate and after this election. i hope we will win and i think we will win, but if tim walz is the next vice president he will have my prayers, have my best wishes and he will have my help whenever he wants it. we have to remember that for years in this country democrats protested the results of elections. hillary clinton in 2016 said that donald trump had the election stolen by vladimir putin because the russians bought like $500 worth of facebook ads. this has been going on for a long time and if we want to say that we need to respect the results of the election, i am on board. but if we want to say like tim walz is saying that this is just a problem republicans have had, i don't buy that. >> governor. >> january 6 is not facebook ads. i think a revisionist history on this. i don't understand how we got

to this point, but the issue is that happened. all of us said there is no place for this. it has massive repercussions. this idea that there is censorship to stop people from threatening to kill someone, threatening to do something, that is not censorship. censorship is book banning. we have seen that. we've seen that brought up. i think for everyone tonight and i am going to thanks senator vance. i think this is the conversation they wanted to hear and i think there is a lot of agreement. but this is one we are miles apart on. this was a threat to our democracy in a way that we have not seen. donald trump is still saying he did not lose the election. did he lose the 2020 election? >> tim, i'm focused on the future. did kamala harris censor americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020 covid situation? >> that is a damning nonanswer. >> it is a damning nonanswer

for you not to talk about censorship. we've talked about it and i am happy to talk about it further, but you attacked us for not believing in democracy, the most sacred right under democracy is the first amendment. you yourself said there is no first amendment right to misinformation. >> threatening or hate speech. >> the silence people from speaking their minds, that is a threat to democracy that will long outlive this moment. i would like democrats and republicans to reject censorship. let's persuade one another. let's argue about ideas and come together afterwards. >> you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. that is the test. the supreme court test. >> fire in a crowded theater, you want to dictate people off facebook. >> governor, the senator does have the floor. >> sorry. >> that is criticizing the policies of the government, which is the right of every american. >> senator, the governor does have the floor for one minute to respond to you. >> i don't run facebook.

i see a candidate out here who refused and i am shocked by this. he lost the election. this is not a debate. it is not anything other than in donald trump's world. look, when mike pence made that decision to certify that election, that is why mike pence is not on this stage. what i'm concerned about is, where is the firewall with donald trump? where is the firewall? if he knows he could do anything including taking an election and his vice president is not going to stand to it. that is what we are asking you, america. will you stand up? will you keep your oath of office even if the president doesn't? i think kamala harris will agree she would not pick me if she thought i would not do that, because of course that is what we would do. america, i think you have a really clear choice on this election of who will honor democracy and who will honor

donald trump. >> governor, your time is up. thank you, gentlemen. we will be right back with both of our candidates. the cbs news vice presidential debate continues. >> a very high-stakes debate, obviously. 35 days out from election day in a race that is tied. candidates tim walz and j.d. vance have one segment left to make their case and their closing statements. more of the debate and our response and analysis, all here on msnbc. stay with us.

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join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. welcome back to the cbs news vice presidential debate. it is now time for closing statements. senator vance won the virtual coin toss and elected to go last. governor walz, you are first. you have two minutes. >> thank you, senator vance. thank you to cbs news and most importantly, thank you to all of you. if you're still up and missed dancing with the stars, i appreciate it. democracy matters and matters

that you are here. i am surprised at the coalition kamala harris is built. bernie sanders, dick cheney and taylor swift and a whole lot of folks in between that. they don't agree on everything, but they are truly optimistic people. they believe in the positive future of this country and one where our politics can be better than it is. i have to tell you, better than it is is the sense of optimism that there can be an opportunity economy that works for everyone. not just to get by, but to get ahead and the idea that freedom means something. not the freedom of government to be in your bedroom or exam room, but the freedom for you to make choices about yourself. we all know who donald trump is. he told us and as maya angelo said, believe him. his first address talked about american carnage and he spent four years trying to do that. senator vance made it clear, he will stand with donald trump's agenda. he will continue to push down that road. excuse me.

kamala harris gives us a different option. i'm going to be careful about the quotes, but there is one that senator vance said that does resonate with me. he said donald trump makes the people i care about afraid. a lot of america feels that way. we don't need to be afraid. franklin roosevelt was right. all we have to fear is fear itself. kamala harris is bringing a new way forward. bringing a politics of joy, bringing real solutions for the middle class and she is centering you at the heart of that. all the while asking everyone, join this movement. make your voices heard. let's look for a new day where everybody gets that opportunity and everybody gets a chance to thrive. i ask for your vote on november 5 for kamala harris. >> governor walz, thank you. senator vance, your closing statement. >> i want to thank governor walz, you folks at cbs and of course the american people for tuning in.

one of the things we didn't talk about was energy. i remember when i was being raised by my grandmother when she didn't have enough money to turn on the heat at night because ohio gets cold at night and money was often very tight. i believe as a person wants to be your next vice president that we are a rich and prosperous enough country where every american, rich or poor, ought to be able to turn on their heat in the middle of a cold winter night. that has gotten more difficult thanks to kamala harris's energy policies. i believe rich or poor you should be able to afford a nice meal for your family. that has gotten harder because of kamala harris's policy. i believe that rich or poor you want to be able to buy a house. you ought to live in safe neighborhoods. you ought not have your communities flooded with fentanyl and that has gotten harder because of kamala harris's policies. i've been in politics to do what kamala harris does when she stands in front of the american people and says on day one she will work on all of these challenges i listed. she has been the vice president for 3 1/2 years. day one was 1400 days ago and

her policies have made these problems worse. i believe we have the most beautiful country in the world. i beat -- meet people on the campaign trail who can't afford food, but have the grace and generosity to ask how i'm doing and tell me they are praying for my family. what that has taught me as we have the greatest country, the most beautiful country, the most incredible people anywhere in the world, but they are not going to be able to achieve their full dreams with the broken leadership we have in washington. they are not able to live their american dream if we do the same thing we have been doing for the last 3 1/2 years. we need change. we need a new direction. we need a president who has done this once before and did it well. please vote for donald trump and whether you vote for me or for tim walz, i want to say that i am so proud to be doing this. i'm rooting for you. god bless you and good night. >> senator vance, thank you and thank you both for participating in the only vice

presidential debate of this election cycle. i am margaret brennan. >> and i am norah o'donnell and a reminder there are 35 days to election day. please get out and vote and for all of us at cbs news, thank you and good night. >> the vice presidential candidates debate wraps up at cbs news headquarters in new york city. you see the candidates being joined by their wives. usha vance and gwen walz. i would not describe them as evenly matched because they are so different. so different on style and substance. very interested to hear from the spin room, to hear from all of my colleagues to get to all of the analysis we are going to get to. i think the big picture take away on this is that one of

these candidates is much more slick. a much more practiced, professional debate style speaker and the other candidate one. there was one bad moment for tim walz in this debate where he got mixed up and embarrassed in answering a question about exactly what month he had been in china in relation to the tiananmen square protest. but then on guns, on january 6, on obamacare, on the economy, on blaming everything on the border, back again on healthcare, on abortion, on every issue on substance. j.d. vance was very polished and very slick and tim walz beat him on all the substantive points. at least that was my take on it. i do think that there was one very blunt, very easily disproven lie on a very important issue that is going to be real trouble for j.d. vance coming out of this, which is him saying i never supported

a national ban on abortion. j.d. vance is bluntly on the record and on tape saying i want abortion to be illegal. his actual quote was i certainly would like abortion to be illegal nationally. natio national abortion ban when that is out there, it is something that you never want to shake on this presidential election after roe v. wade. so, i think that j.d. vance spent the night building a beautiful fort out of picks. it was perfect. at the end he sneaked on it and the whole thing fell apart and he whhad to walk out of the roo over the broken toothpicks. i think rothat, god bless the people who watched the whole thing and stayed locked in on it. i checked in with 20 people who do this and watch it for a

living. no matter how you watched this, if you can not say what happened in 2020 and the only reason you are there because of what happened in 2020 is because supporters were sent to hang mike pence then you lose. walz had great moments. he built -- i mean jd fans built it, he was speaking as though he was going to be mitt romney's vp. it was a performance amazing and disconnected from the person who he is running with. donald htrump. >> but still unable to say that trump lost the election. >> and in that moment. >> unable to say it. >> and in the moment i think everything that he did for 88 minutes was lost and wiped out by that inability to tell the truth. that, that moment was the moment of the night.

wait, why is he here? oh, right. the mike pence thing. that was the moment of the night. j.d. advances very good at this. this is what he has been doing since he was in college, talking to libs and being well, i sort of agree with you here and this is the other part of it. he did it fine. i thought walz on substance, health care, very, very strong on health wacare on the basic o the tax cuts and who you are fighting for. these are meat and potatoes. the moments that broke me. i don't know about the median information level of the viewer. the level of gaslighting to say that donald trump saved the aca? he saved obama care. did you miss that? got up on national television and upsaid trump save today in bipartisan way.

and it is january 20th. and the brained bashed in and blood on the capitol and 14 days later we did it. >> he did not show up for the transfer of power, by the way. it is really rich for democratic leaders to say trump is a unique threat to democracy. what is that? in which that happened. at that moment when tim walz uds really can't answer that question? you really can't say that donald trump lost the election? you can't say that? that was the moment of the night. you mentioned some of them. 25 million undocumented immigrants. more like 15 or 16. he said he reportedly lied about springfield, again. and the did it so insistantly

that he had his mike muted. they were brought in by an app and that is an app that immigrants can use to come in and get a certain kind of visa. that was launched in 2020 under, drumroll, donald trump. he says he never supported a national abortion ban. i have here a printout that is already circulating all over social media of -- this is from the campaign website of j.d. vance when he ran for united states senate. headlined "end abortion" 100 pro-life. place where we see children as an inconvenience, on and on and on. and gave one of the quotes, he wants to see abortion to be illegal nationally. to stop women from traveling across states to obtain abortion. he rois in favor of a fugitive

slave act to stop abortion. he blamed undocumented immigrants from rising house prices, rising food prices ngan maybe ghosts and bad weather. he was blaming undocumented immigrants for everything. walz was skillful to knock it down and he was speaking as a governor. housing costs and how it works. the bipartisan itway to save health care was absolutely absurd. he said most of our solarpanels are coming from china. it is literally the opposite. google department of education, 80% of the solarpanel comes from, drumroll, the united states. trump peacefully gave up power. forget january 6th and could not answer the question did trump lose the election. a smooth lie is still a lie. j.d. advances smooth. he said nothing memorable. there is nothing clippable in what he said. just all smooth bland lies.

he got outdone by tim walz. may be awkward, took him awhile to get warmed up but he won the debate. he had substance and relatable and he did not go in there to slay j.d. vance he went in there to show himself. he showed himself to be bipartisan. reasonable, practical. a lot e of people are complaini he did not knock j.d. vance out. he was not cruel. that was not his job. it was obvious his job was to sell kamala harris as president. he did that very well. he won the debate. >> i wrote a note that he was not on offense against vance in the first half of the debate. he came back after that break. after the break and was like just destroyed him on health care. then january 6th and january 20th thing. i scratched out my own note. he was mynot on offense for van the first half and then came back and more than made up for it, lawrence? >> you know, he will be

remembered for that final exchange about, you know, did trump lose the election and he doesn't answer. his ttechnique is to not answe it makes him the very first vice presidential president who does not know who won the election [ laughter ] >> but. -- [ laughter ] >> a republican is already in office? >> it came at the end of a long list of questions that he simply did not answer. >> it is a one-word answer, yes or no. he kept talking. he was then asked will you, margaret brennan asked him will you separate children from parents even if the children

are united states citizens and add costs to the national debt what is your solution to that? no answer. will you monitor pregnancy? got an answer. he said no. he said no to that. finally, there was an answer. he was then asked "where are you going to seize the federal lands? >> that is a really important question. if you are going to build anything in america we want to know where it icis and a lot of people don't want it to be in their backyard. >> and of course, walz followed up on that when you seize the federal land for the housing is that also the federal land you are seizing for the drilling? [ laughter ] are they all going to be together. >> tand do you remember the answer? >> no answer. [ laughter ] >> and then we get to the final big o no answer which is on a loop now of, did he lose the election. and the inability to answer

that. just on that very simple debate concept of here is the question, and you answer it, he lost specifically on any scorecard when you just give him a 0. >> can i say something about the motorolaerator. -- i don't pretend to know how everyone will act teto this, a lot of woman in positions of authority that should command respect by virtue of the of dynamic will see themselves and some do, the disrespect and talked over. i mean there was a moment like that with then vice president, in the harris/pence debate when she said "i'm speaking" there was a believe what he had to

say was more important than the debate rules and the moderator. the substance is when he was liing about immigrants in springfield, ohio, again. tim t walz called himself out o it. no, no, no, i am not lying, let me tell you why i am calling them illegal immigrants even though they are not illegal. they said thank you for explaining the law. that is annot what we are askin you about. >> that is when he complained about being fact checked, saying the rules said you can not fact check me. that is one of the thing that is in the video that we will be hearing a lot of. norah o'donnell did a fact a check indirect at the end of the climate change discussion, the discussion ended and she just said directly, the overall consensus that climate change is happening. that is enthat, bu